Missing PuppyLinux boot options

[otropogo]

One deficit in the Ultllex CD is the inability to select the Puppy command line boot options "puppy pfix=..." .This means that someone who normally and regularly boots from CD using a 2fs save file can't get access to filecheck commands, copy to RAM, etc. Worse, if he/she only has a single 2fs file on the system, Puppy will boot with it automatically, without even offering the option to boot without a save file.

Is this something that could be fixed in the next release? Perhaps it's just a matter of timing, but I've tried several times to hit the F2 key as quickly as possible after selecting Puppy from the menu, and never succeeded in accessing the boot command line.

[Ivan Davidov]

In general you can access the command line by hitting the TAB key before hitting ENTER, but after you select the Puppy Linux option with the arrow keys. Then you are given access to the boot command line and you can add/remove/change boot option parameters.

Currently the slogan ""Powered by ULTILEX" is overlapping with the command line (two texts one over another), but eventually you should be able to make your changes. I will try to move the slogan (or change the boot logo screen) for the next major version of ULTILEX.

The idea behind ULTILEX is not to preserve all boot options for all included distributions, but to give a subset of these options which are handy and more widely used. Also, due to its design, currently ULTILEX can't handle the F2, F3, etc. keys for the included distributions. Even if I add the corresponding functional key screens, I need to edit them, because almost every distribution offers functional key options and I need to "merge" all functional key screens for every corresponding functional key for every distribution which is quite a lot of work. This "merge" needs to be done, because the functional keys are handled before the actual boot process starts (before hitting the ENTER key).

Let me know if you are able to solve your issue through the boot command line.

[otropogo]

Have tried six or seven times, but no success!

I am able to halt the countdown by hitting a key other than ENTER. But after that, things don't go as predicted on my system.

Hitting TAB overwrites part of the menu text with text of the boot script, but seems to do nothing else. It looks as though the system has locked up, but hitting [ENTER] continues the boot process, but without providing a command line for boot options, as hitting F2 does in a stock Puppy 4.3.1 Live-CD.

The only apparent difference in booting this way instead of directly from the first menu is that the system drops to the command line after loading the sfs and 2fs file (if selected), which would allow an experienced user to try to modify a faulty display configuration by means of the "xorgwizard" command.

To access the desktop (assuming the display is configured correctly), the novice user has to know enough to enter "xwin" .

So, as is, halting the countdown doesn't seem to be a good option for  linux newbies. And the issue of accessing boot options for experienced users seems to remain unresolved.

[Ivan Davidov]

So, as is, halting the countdown doesn't seem to be a good option for  linux newbies. And the issue of accessing boot options for experienced users seems to remain unresolved.

It is resolved by default. When you press the TAB key you see the boot command line and you are able to edit it directly. You can use BACKSPACE or ARROW keys to move the cursor and edit the command line as necessary. There is no option to display all available kernel parameter commands for Puppy (or any other distro), but if you select the boot entry that you wish to edit, then press the TAB key and then you add/edit whatever options you need, then everything should work fine.

In general - when you work with ULTILEX, just forget about F2, F3, etc. These boot key options are not implemented. They are not part of Puppy (or any other distro), these keys are handled by the pre-boot process. ULTILEX uses its own pre-boot process handling mechanism which is slightly different from the one in Puppy (for example Puppy provides functional key handlers while ULTILEX doesn't). I didn't include the 100% Puppy inside ULTILEX, I included just the files which Puppy needs in order to boot and this applies for all distros embedded in ULTILEX.

Again in general:

• Select boot entry from ULTILEX.
• Press the TAB key.
• Edit the boot command line which you see now.
• Press ENTER to use the modified boot command line, OR press ESC to return to the boot list menu.

Let me know if you need further assistance on that!

[otropogo]

.... When you press the TAB key you see the boot command line and you are able to edit it directly. You can use BACKSPACE or ARROW keys to move the cursor and edit the command line as necessary.


There is no option to display all available kernel parameter commands for Puppy (or any other distro), but if you select the boot entry that you wish to edit, then press the TAB key and then you add/edit whatever options you need, then everything should work fine.

OK. I see it now. The problem on my system is that the command line appears in grey superimposed on the larger green text "Powered by Ultilex" IIRC. It's barely visible, and not readable.

Now that I know that I can enter text on that line, I can use it. But I have no idea how, since no matter what I enter there, when I hit [ENTER] afterward. Puppy boots just as before, by searching all the drives for a usable 2fs file.

... forget about F2, F3, etc. These boot key options are not implemented. They are not part of Puppy (or any other distro), these keys are handled by the pre-boot process. ULTILEX uses its own pre-boot process handling mechanism which is slightly different from the one in Puppy (for example Puppy provides functional key handlers while ULTILEX doesn't).

Well, how does the user access the ULTILEX mechanism? There's certainly no hint in the menu. For example, what commands on this boot command line will cause Puppy to load entirely into RAM, as in the pfix=copy command, or boot without using and 2fs file, as in pfix=ram, etc.?

Edit the boot command line which you see now.

Edit it how? Typically, when such commands are available, there's a keystroke that shows a list, and what they do - usually the F2 key as in Puppy Linux, or in Knoppix, IIRC. How is a beginner to know what to do with this command line?

PS. you site is loading extremely slowly. I've been waiting more than a minute for a preview, and it took me several tries to get onto the board.

[Ivan Davidov]

Well, how does the user access the ULTILEX mechanism? There's certainly no hint in the menu. For example, what commands on this boot command line will cause Puppy to load entirely into RAM, as in the pfix=copy command, or boot without using and 2fs file, as in pfix=ram, etc.?

This is exactly why I didn't implement such a mechanism. There are at least 5 distros inside ULTILEX which provide pre-boot functional key handling. You ask about Puppy functional key(s) screens, but other users might also ask for other distro's functional key screens.

Once you are able to modify the boot command line, you can try to use the same boot options which you use in Puppy, which means that you just need to add the prefixes you mention. You should also have in mind that I give no guarantee that it will work at all, because I have slightly modified the Puppy's directory structure to "fit" into ULTILEX. All I guarantee is that when you use the default boot options from ULTILEX, everything will work fine both from CD and USB.

Ah, I almost forgot: I don't give guarantees either if you decide to use the installer from Puppy, because under the ULTILEX umbrella Puppy resides together with other distributions. This might cause the Puppy installer to fail (i don't know, I haven't tested this case scenario).

In terms of Linux newbies - even functional key handling at the beginning of the boot process is not a good option. Yes, I know how to use functional keys, how to edit boot commands and so on, but the regular user just needs something to see and something which actually works, preferably with no problems. This is another reason why I didn't implement the functional key handling. The regular user just doesn't need that. Advanced users - they should know how to modify the boot command.

PS. you site is loading extremely slowly. I've been waiting more than a minute for a preview, and it took me several tries to get onto the board.

There is no such issue from England, Bulgaria, France, Germany and USA. On the other hand while I was in Malaysia few months ago I also had troubles to access my own site. This is not a hosting issue and unfortunately I can do nothing to speed the things.

You are welcome to review how ULTILEX is designed and what technology I used in order to cretate it. Just read this short tutorial, should you need further technical information on how the boot process is actually handled. In this way you will be able to modify ULTILEX so that it boots Puppy with the exact options that you need.

http://ultilex.linux-bg.org/the_dao_of_ultilex.html

[otropogo]

...
Once you are able to modify the boot command line, you can try to use the same boot options which you use in Puppy, which means that you just need to add the prefixes you mention. ...

Unfortunately, this is not what happens. I have tried entering commands on the "command line" you refer to, including the "puppy pfix=..." commands. They have absolutely no effect. Nor do incomplete or nonsense entries on that line, which should result in an error message of some kind, were this a real command line... Whatever I enter on this line, whether after the existing text, or after erasing the existing text, the result when I hit [enter] is always the same - Puppy boots and searches for Puppy files on the system. I have no explanation, I'm just reporting what I see.

In terms of Linux newbies - even functional key handling at the beginning of the boot process is not a good option. Yes, I know how to use functional keys, how to edit boot commands and so on, but the regular user just needs something to see and something which actually works, preferably with no problems. This is another reason why I didn't implement the functional key handling. The regular user just doesn't need that. Advanced users - they should know how to modify the boot command.

Look Ivan, I'm sincerely trying to help popularize Ultilex, because I believe it has merit both from a ultilitarian and a learning viewpoint for many, if not most Puppy users, and potentila Puppy users. But I really believe you seriously misgauge the technical skills of most Puppy users. In my perception, they fall somewhere in between your conception of "regular" and "advanced", and for them the existing Puppy boot command menu is extremely useful, and could well be extended somewhat.

For example, I've been experimenting with Puppy and before that Knoppix, Red Hat, Mandriva, and a numerous other Linux distros for more than a decade, starting with Red Hat 5.0. Of course, in the beginning I had to learn how to do everything from installation on via the command line. But because I didn't use Linux day to day, and because of the many hardware and software problems I encountered (and couldn't really deal with because of lacking support pre-broadband), these skills quickly withered. Since the advent of Knoppix, I have only used the command line in Linux in cases of dire need, and usually with the help of handholding by experienced users.

Yet for the last 18 months, I've used Puppy Linux every day for 99% or more of my web activity. I certainly wouldn't fall into the category of "regular" Puppy user as you describe it, nor am I "advanced"..

I've given you a double thumbs up plug on murga-linux.com,

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/search.php?search_id=egosearch

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=48693

and have been using your Ultilex disk instead of my Puppy 4.3.1 disk since
 burning the former, despite the clear shortcomings from the point of view of Puppy functionality.  This because I am basically interested in exploring TinyCore and Slax. But most regular Puppy users (by my definition) are not quite so keen on straying, and I think this boot limitation will dissuade many who would otherwise use Ultilex from being exposed to the other distributions offered.

In short, if you wish to attract Puppy users to your work, I think you're shooting yourself in the foot by failing to provide, in some similarly convenient form, these boot options that most Puppy users are accustomed to.

PS. you site is loading extremely slowly. I've been waiting more than a minute for a preview, and it took me several tries to get onto the board.

There is no such issue from England, Bulgaria, France, Germany and USA. On the other hand while I was in Malaysia few months ago I also had troubles to access my own site. This is not a hosting issue and unfortunately I can do nothing to speed the things.

I wasn't referring to a constant problem, just one that persisted all day yesterday. In fact, I let the window in which I had "posted' the reply above open for more than 30 minutes, and after that period, it still showed 'waiting for...'. In the end I had to close the window and shut down without knowing whether the post actually went through.

Today, BTW, I've encountered no such issues, nor did I have any similar problems with any other site yesterday while struggling with yours....

You are welcome to review how ULTILEX is designed and what technology I used in order to cretate it. Just read this short tutorial, should you need further technical information on how the boot process is actually handled. In this way you will be able to modify ULTILEX so that it boots Puppy with the exact options that you need.

http://ultilex.linux-bg.org/the_dao_of_ultilex.html

Thanks, I'll read it and give it a try. But I don't see how I can use a "command line" that merely displays text, but doesn't attempt to execute it - which seems to be the situation when I run Ultilex on my PC.